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	<title>Comments on: Saturday Editorial: Games Without Storylines Suck</title>
	<atom:link href="http://gamerlimit.com/2009/12/editorial-games-without-storylines-suck/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://gamerlimit.com/2009/12/editorial-games-without-storylines-suck/</link>
	<description>Gamer Limit</description>
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		<title>By: Realist</title>
		<link>http://gamerlimit.com/2009/12/editorial-games-without-storylines-suck/#comment-38845</link>
		<dc:creator>Realist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jul 2010 14:51:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gamerlimit.com/?p=49010#comment-38845</guid>
		<description>The best storylines are the ones I make myself.  The worst ones are those I am forced to follow.

Storylines in offline single-player adventure games are just fine.  Storylines in MMO&#039;s have no place, IMO, especially ones that involve instancing and cutscenes.

If everyone in an MMO is &quot;the hero&quot; then no one is &quot;the hero.&quot;

The best MMO experiences I have had were ones in which my character started as a nobody and I developed him through my own choices, risk-taking, and adventures.  In contrast, I have never valued anything &quot;given to me&quot; by a game and have never enjoyed being forced or railroaded down some storyline path.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The best storylines are the ones I make myself.  The worst ones are those I am forced to follow.</p>
<p>Storylines in offline single-player adventure games are just fine.  Storylines in MMO&#8217;s have no place, IMO, especially ones that involve instancing and cutscenes.</p>
<p>If everyone in an MMO is &#8220;the hero&#8221; then no one is &#8220;the hero.&#8221;</p>
<p>The best MMO experiences I have had were ones in which my character started as a nobody and I developed him through my own choices, risk-taking, and adventures.  In contrast, I have never valued anything &#8220;given to me&#8221; by a game and have never enjoyed being forced or railroaded down some storyline path.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://gamerlimit.com/2009/12/editorial-games-without-storylines-suck/#comment-30952</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Feb 2010 20:16:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gamerlimit.com/?p=49010#comment-30952</guid>
		<description>sarah</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>sarah</p>
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		<title>By: billychiillywilly</title>
		<link>http://gamerlimit.com/2009/12/editorial-games-without-storylines-suck/#comment-28458</link>
		<dc:creator>billychiillywilly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Dec 2009 20:35:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gamerlimit.com/?p=49010#comment-28458</guid>
		<description>since when is mass effect on ps3?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>since when is mass effect on ps3?</p>
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		<title>By: Eze</title>
		<link>http://gamerlimit.com/2009/12/editorial-games-without-storylines-suck/#comment-28428</link>
		<dc:creator>Eze</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Dec 2009 23:38:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gamerlimit.com/?p=49010#comment-28428</guid>
		<description>Why are all the pictures of PS3 exclusives?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why are all the pictures of PS3 exclusives?</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Clark</title>
		<link>http://gamerlimit.com/2009/12/editorial-games-without-storylines-suck/#comment-28425</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Clark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Dec 2009 22:37:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gamerlimit.com/?p=49010#comment-28425</guid>
		<description>Of course, I am never going to claim &quot;I don&#039;t want any story in my games&quot; that would be redundant. But the Ludology side of things holds alot of weight, and strong gameplay can mean a game can overlook story elements. But that clearly isn&#039;t the case in all games. I disagree with the main point of &quot;no storyline = suck&quot; and to try and narrow it down it seems the point distills into &quot;Games with Storylines need good storylines.&quot;

To see storylines as &quot;a reason to play average games&quot; is a horrible concept, if you have a good story and a bad game, write a book. One of the things about the medium of video games is don&#039;t just need to have the story there (in the case of games that require storylines) but you need to figure out how to tell it. This isn&#039;t movies, this isn&#039;t a book, this isn&#039;t a play or a comic or radio piece, this is a medium of its very own.  Metal Gear Solid gets beat into the ground by rampant anti-fanboys at any possible moment for being too much like a movie, not enough like a game at times. Lost Odyssey had &quot;flashbacks&quot; to the characters&#039; pasts, which were fascinating to read and wonderfully written (especially considering they&#039;re translations, I believe) but it was a game, not a book.

I&#039;ve sort of forgotten my point here, so I&#039;ll stop typing now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course, I am never going to claim &#8220;I don&#8217;t want any story in my games&#8221; that would be redundant. But the Ludology side of things holds alot of weight, and strong gameplay can mean a game can overlook story elements. But that clearly isn&#8217;t the case in all games. I disagree with the main point of &#8220;no storyline = suck&#8221; and to try and narrow it down it seems the point distills into &#8220;Games with Storylines need good storylines.&#8221;</p>
<p>To see storylines as &#8220;a reason to play average games&#8221; is a horrible concept, if you have a good story and a bad game, write a book. One of the things about the medium of video games is don&#8217;t just need to have the story there (in the case of games that require storylines) but you need to figure out how to tell it. This isn&#8217;t movies, this isn&#8217;t a book, this isn&#8217;t a play or a comic or radio piece, this is a medium of its very own.  Metal Gear Solid gets beat into the ground by rampant anti-fanboys at any possible moment for being too much like a movie, not enough like a game at times. Lost Odyssey had &#8220;flashbacks&#8221; to the characters&#8217; pasts, which were fascinating to read and wonderfully written (especially considering they&#8217;re translations, I believe) but it was a game, not a book.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve sort of forgotten my point here, so I&#8217;ll stop typing now.</p>
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		<title>By: Jamie Obeso</title>
		<link>http://gamerlimit.com/2009/12/editorial-games-without-storylines-suck/#comment-28422</link>
		<dc:creator>Jamie Obeso</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Dec 2009 21:01:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gamerlimit.com/?p=49010#comment-28422</guid>
		<description>While I am a huge fan of RPGs, I do think it&#039;s kind of crazy to say that games without storylines suck.

The reason I enjoy Street Fighter 2 is not because it has fast-paced, simple gameplay that allows you to focus on refining your skill and pitting it against others in a game of intelligent competitive play...AND a storyline.

The reason I enjoy Mega Man X is not because it&#039;s a frenetic platformer game that tests your reaction time, rewards pattern recognition, has difficulty that can be tailored to suit your desires by way of forgoing certain powerups and special weapons...AND a storyline.

Sure, I know a lot about the stories of those games, mostly because I&#039;ve subjected myself to them for so long. But, let&#039;s face it: even though the storylines of those games are terrible, it doesn&#039;t detract from the experience, cos that&#039;s not why you&#039;re playing it.

If a game does attempt to deliver a compelling narrative, then it should be examined. If it doesn&#039;t, well...they are video GAMES, after all. Believe me when I say that I absolutely love wonderful narratives in storylines:

http://gamerlimit.com/2009/04/an-honest-critique-of-story-critiques/

But, it&#039;s not necessary for an enjoyable experience, as you yourself mentioned in the beginning of your editorial. You&#039;re right that a good storyline could possibly enhance the experience of most games. I disagree that a game &quot;sucks&quot; without one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I am a huge fan of RPGs, I do think it&#8217;s kind of crazy to say that games without storylines suck.</p>
<p>The reason I enjoy Street Fighter 2 is not because it has fast-paced, simple gameplay that allows you to focus on refining your skill and pitting it against others in a game of intelligent competitive play&#8230;AND a storyline.</p>
<p>The reason I enjoy Mega Man X is not because it&#8217;s a frenetic platformer game that tests your reaction time, rewards pattern recognition, has difficulty that can be tailored to suit your desires by way of forgoing certain powerups and special weapons&#8230;AND a storyline.</p>
<p>Sure, I know a lot about the stories of those games, mostly because I&#8217;ve subjected myself to them for so long. But, let&#8217;s face it: even though the storylines of those games are terrible, it doesn&#8217;t detract from the experience, cos that&#8217;s not why you&#8217;re playing it.</p>
<p>If a game does attempt to deliver a compelling narrative, then it should be examined. If it doesn&#8217;t, well&#8230;they are video GAMES, after all. Believe me when I say that I absolutely love wonderful narratives in storylines:</p>
<p><a href="http://gamerlimit.com/2009/04/an-honest-critique-of-story-critiques/" rel="nofollow">http://gamerlimit.com/2009/04/an-honest-critique-of-story-critiques/</a></p>
<p>But, it&#8217;s not necessary for an enjoyable experience, as you yourself mentioned in the beginning of your editorial. You&#8217;re right that a good storyline could possibly enhance the experience of most games. I disagree that a game &#8220;sucks&#8221; without one.</p>
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		<title>By: Jazzman</title>
		<link>http://gamerlimit.com/2009/12/editorial-games-without-storylines-suck/#comment-28412</link>
		<dc:creator>Jazzman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Dec 2009 15:48:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gamerlimit.com/?p=49010#comment-28412</guid>
		<description>A great plot only takes a couple of drafts and if it is well-written it can easily drag gamers not only to play average games, but their sequels aswell. It&#039;s the cheapest way to make up for reprocussions like bad graphics or poor balance, especially for indie games where it can be evident.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A great plot only takes a couple of drafts and if it is well-written it can easily drag gamers not only to play average games, but their sequels aswell. It&#8217;s the cheapest way to make up for reprocussions like bad graphics or poor balance, especially for indie games where it can be evident.</p>
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		<title>By: Shawn Evans</title>
		<link>http://gamerlimit.com/2009/12/editorial-games-without-storylines-suck/#comment-28378</link>
		<dc:creator>Shawn Evans</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Dec 2009 02:47:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gamerlimit.com/?p=49010#comment-28378</guid>
		<description>I gotta agree with Chris here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I gotta agree with Chris here.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Carter</title>
		<link>http://gamerlimit.com/2009/12/editorial-games-without-storylines-suck/#comment-28375</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Carter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Dec 2009 02:22:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gamerlimit.com/?p=49010#comment-28375</guid>
		<description>Give me an action game with visceral hardcore gameplay, and skip the story, and I&#039;ll be ok. Case and point, Bayonetta. Uncharted 2&#039;s combination of both is nice, but it can&#039;t top God of War pure action wise.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Give me an action game with visceral hardcore gameplay, and skip the story, and I&#8217;ll be ok. Case and point, Bayonetta. Uncharted 2&#8242;s combination of both is nice, but it can&#8217;t top God of War pure action wise.</p>
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		<title>By: Sean Patrick Carey</title>
		<link>http://gamerlimit.com/2009/12/editorial-games-without-storylines-suck/#comment-28373</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean Patrick Carey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Dec 2009 23:23:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gamerlimit.com/?p=49010#comment-28373</guid>
		<description>@Tony -- What&#039;s wrong with smoke and mirrors? &quot;immersion&quot; is just what the game developers do to ease the process of suspension of disbelief.

That&#039;s like being opposed to live theatre because it relies on tricks to pull people into the world of the play. Yes, if the play sucks, then the tricks are annoying, but even the best play can be enhanced by improving the production values.

Story&#039;s not the only way to do that for a game, but it is one powerful tool that should be considered by gamers and game-makers alike. Hell, even Pac-Man and Donkey Kong have stories.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Tony &#8212; What&#8217;s wrong with smoke and mirrors? &#8220;immersion&#8221; is just what the game developers do to ease the process of suspension of disbelief.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s like being opposed to live theatre because it relies on tricks to pull people into the world of the play. Yes, if the play sucks, then the tricks are annoying, but even the best play can be enhanced by improving the production values.</p>
<p>Story&#8217;s not the only way to do that for a game, but it is one powerful tool that should be considered by gamers and game-makers alike. Hell, even Pac-Man and Donkey Kong have stories.</p>
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		<title>By: Tony Ponce</title>
		<link>http://gamerlimit.com/2009/12/editorial-games-without-storylines-suck/#comment-28370</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony Ponce</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Dec 2009 22:05:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gamerlimit.com/?p=49010#comment-28370</guid>
		<description>&quot;Immersion&quot; is all smoke and mirrors. Therefore, I place myself firmly in the camp opposed to this argument.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Immersion&#8221; is all smoke and mirrors. Therefore, I place myself firmly in the camp opposed to this argument.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Effendi</title>
		<link>http://gamerlimit.com/2009/12/editorial-games-without-storylines-suck/#comment-28367</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Effendi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Dec 2009 17:10:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gamerlimit.com/?p=49010#comment-28367</guid>
		<description>@Paul

This article was never intended to be aimed towards sports games, especially for a franchise such as EA&#039;s FIFA. 

And yes, I still think the racing genre can benefit from a tangible storyline. The same goes for the fighting genre, as it can definitely benefit from a well written story. How can a quality narrative hinder a fighting game? If anything, it&#039;ll enhance it. 

The inclusion of a forced and obviously superflous story is of course not needed in a fighting game (ie. Tekken), but that point applies to every game anyway.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Paul</p>
<p>This article was never intended to be aimed towards sports games, especially for a franchise such as EA&#8217;s FIFA. </p>
<p>And yes, I still think the racing genre can benefit from a tangible storyline. The same goes for the fighting genre, as it can definitely benefit from a well written story. How can a quality narrative hinder a fighting game? If anything, it&#8217;ll enhance it. </p>
<p>The inclusion of a forced and obviously superflous story is of course not needed in a fighting game (ie. Tekken), but that point applies to every game anyway.</p>
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