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	<title>Comments on: In Defence of Grand Theft Auto IV, Part One: My City Screams</title>
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	<link>http://gamerlimit.com/2009/10/in-defence-of-grand-theft-auto-iv-part-one-my-city-screams/</link>
	<description>Gamer Limit</description>
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		<title>By: marko</title>
		<link>http://gamerlimit.com/2009/10/in-defence-of-grand-theft-auto-iv-part-one-my-city-screams/#comment-72110</link>
		<dc:creator>marko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Apr 2012 15:35:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gamerlimit.com/?p=42161#comment-72110</guid>
		<description>this is gameplay</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>this is gameplay</p>
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		<title>By: Gregg</title>
		<link>http://gamerlimit.com/2009/10/in-defence-of-grand-theft-auto-iv-part-one-my-city-screams/#comment-22998</link>
		<dc:creator>Gregg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Oct 2009 16:08:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gamerlimit.com/?p=42161#comment-22998</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d just like to say that I haven&#039;t played any previous GTA aside from the first so my opinion hasn&#039;t really been affected by the previous 3D installments but I don&#039;t think I&#039;ve ever been so surprised by the critical foaming at the mouth over this thing.

I actually don&#039;t know where to start because the last time I spoke about it was at length and it took me a good hour to clear my lungs.

You say that they were trying to do something interesting but I couldn&#039;t disagree more. The game was essentially the same missions recycled for every intermission of non-interactive story. Many missions had a very linear and strict way of completing them leaving little room for player authorship or creativity. Not very interesting. Considering that most of the game revolved around shooting- as opposed to gang politics or power struggles (far more interesting!)- targeting and taking cover was a mess at best. Changing weapons was a pain in the arse and so was throwing grenades. The controls were clunky to say the least. Playing Uncharted only exasperated my feelings on this. 

Due to the sparse gameplay or low quality of what was there (aside from the driving which was fun and really solid) the story didn&#039;t grab me save for a few moments. The larger scale missions were much more involving and gave weight to the story arcs while the smaller cookie cutter missions just served to pad out what could have been a very sharp game. The writing and performances were excellent but the game was decidedly mediocre. Shooting and driving your way to watch a story section only to shoot and drive to the next? Wow. Gaming really is making leaps and bounds. Come on, Rockstar had a hit on their hands whether they&#039;d have taken risks or not and in the end they defaulted to merely visceral thrills and few cerebral ones. The review scores led me to believe we had the second coming of games so forgive my Heresy!

My apologies if some of this doesn&#039;t hang together so well. I&#039;m supposed to be working :-O</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d just like to say that I haven&#8217;t played any previous GTA aside from the first so my opinion hasn&#8217;t really been affected by the previous 3D installments but I don&#8217;t think I&#8217;ve ever been so surprised by the critical foaming at the mouth over this thing.</p>
<p>I actually don&#8217;t know where to start because the last time I spoke about it was at length and it took me a good hour to clear my lungs.</p>
<p>You say that they were trying to do something interesting but I couldn&#8217;t disagree more. The game was essentially the same missions recycled for every intermission of non-interactive story. Many missions had a very linear and strict way of completing them leaving little room for player authorship or creativity. Not very interesting. Considering that most of the game revolved around shooting- as opposed to gang politics or power struggles (far more interesting!)- targeting and taking cover was a mess at best. Changing weapons was a pain in the arse and so was throwing grenades. The controls were clunky to say the least. Playing Uncharted only exasperated my feelings on this. </p>
<p>Due to the sparse gameplay or low quality of what was there (aside from the driving which was fun and really solid) the story didn&#8217;t grab me save for a few moments. The larger scale missions were much more involving and gave weight to the story arcs while the smaller cookie cutter missions just served to pad out what could have been a very sharp game. The writing and performances were excellent but the game was decidedly mediocre. Shooting and driving your way to watch a story section only to shoot and drive to the next? Wow. Gaming really is making leaps and bounds. Come on, Rockstar had a hit on their hands whether they&#8217;d have taken risks or not and in the end they defaulted to merely visceral thrills and few cerebral ones. The review scores led me to believe we had the second coming of games so forgive my Heresy!</p>
<p>My apologies if some of this doesn&#8217;t hang together so well. I&#8217;m supposed to be working :-O</p>
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		<title>By: Trent</title>
		<link>http://gamerlimit.com/2009/10/in-defence-of-grand-theft-auto-iv-part-one-my-city-screams/#comment-22429</link>
		<dc:creator>Trent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Oct 2009 13:55:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gamerlimit.com/?p=42161#comment-22429</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m so glad you wrote this article. GTAIV is NOT the second coming of christ that it was made out to be in those early reviews. I wasn&#039;t really looking forward to it as I never felt really invested story-wise in San Andreas so I never played that much of it. I was much more keen on MGS4. But I found MGS4 to be one the biggest disapointments I&#039;ve ever played. GTAIV on the other, captured me like no other GTA game ever managed to. I felt connected to Niko. I loved all the characters to the point that I ENJOYED that much mangaled &quot;friendship&quot; system purely because they were fun to listen to. The part that catpured me most of all occured right near the very end of the game

SPOILERS

When Niko finally manages to track down the man who sold him and out, he instead finds a lowly drugged up, guilt-ridden man. The mere fact that previous characters in the series who sell someone out are depicted as charming, psychotic and guilt-free made this man stand out. But what really clinched it for me was when Niko demands how the man could sell out his friends for a small amount of money. The man sadly proclaims that Niko has down far more horrific things for far less. At that crucial point, I didn&#039;t see a fictonal character saying what was written and acting as was programmed. I saw a mirror of all the horrible things that I&#039;d joyously done in my playtime of GTAIV. All the people I stabbed, shot and run over for a thrill. All the times I&#039;d shot and killed defenseless people. All the enounters with people I could have spared but killed anyway. The tradgedy of Niko Bellic was that he could never escape his past because he was driven by a fire that demanded he could never stop killing. And that fire was me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m so glad you wrote this article. GTAIV is NOT the second coming of christ that it was made out to be in those early reviews. I wasn&#8217;t really looking forward to it as I never felt really invested story-wise in San Andreas so I never played that much of it. I was much more keen on MGS4. But I found MGS4 to be one the biggest disapointments I&#8217;ve ever played. GTAIV on the other, captured me like no other GTA game ever managed to. I felt connected to Niko. I loved all the characters to the point that I ENJOYED that much mangaled &#8220;friendship&#8221; system purely because they were fun to listen to. The part that catpured me most of all occured right near the very end of the game</p>
<p>SPOILERS</p>
<p>When Niko finally manages to track down the man who sold him and out, he instead finds a lowly drugged up, guilt-ridden man. The mere fact that previous characters in the series who sell someone out are depicted as charming, psychotic and guilt-free made this man stand out. But what really clinched it for me was when Niko demands how the man could sell out his friends for a small amount of money. The man sadly proclaims that Niko has down far more horrific things for far less. At that crucial point, I didn&#8217;t see a fictonal character saying what was written and acting as was programmed. I saw a mirror of all the horrible things that I&#8217;d joyously done in my playtime of GTAIV. All the people I stabbed, shot and run over for a thrill. All the times I&#8217;d shot and killed defenseless people. All the enounters with people I could have spared but killed anyway. The tradgedy of Niko Bellic was that he could never escape his past because he was driven by a fire that demanded he could never stop killing. And that fire was me.</p>
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		<title>By: James O'Connor</title>
		<link>http://gamerlimit.com/2009/10/in-defence-of-grand-theft-auto-iv-part-one-my-city-screams/#comment-22409</link>
		<dc:creator>James O'Connor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Oct 2009 05:35:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gamerlimit.com/?p=42161#comment-22409</guid>
		<description>Adam: It&#039;s only a game. And I&#039;m only a game journalist. :)

Gordon: I suppose my theory on the matter is that the game puts everything in there for you to &#039;buy into&#039; the characters, but some players maybe aren&#039;t accustomed to seeking out or paying attention to these elements. 

Everyone: Thanks for the feedback!

I sort of realise that what I&#039;m writing about is, perhaps, only going to really have an effect on people who take game narrative fairly seriously. In Part 2 I get into why I still think the actual gameplay is still incredibly fun, though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Adam: It&#8217;s only a game. And I&#8217;m only a game journalist. <img src='http://gamerlimit.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Gordon: I suppose my theory on the matter is that the game puts everything in there for you to &#8216;buy into&#8217; the characters, but some players maybe aren&#8217;t accustomed to seeking out or paying attention to these elements. </p>
<p>Everyone: Thanks for the feedback!</p>
<p>I sort of realise that what I&#8217;m writing about is, perhaps, only going to really have an effect on people who take game narrative fairly seriously. In Part 2 I get into why I still think the actual gameplay is still incredibly fun, though.</p>
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		<title>By: Gordon</title>
		<link>http://gamerlimit.com/2009/10/in-defence-of-grand-theft-auto-iv-part-one-my-city-screams/#comment-22405</link>
		<dc:creator>Gordon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Oct 2009 04:05:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gamerlimit.com/?p=42161#comment-22405</guid>
		<description>I can&#039;t say I feel the same way about GTA IV. I found it to be exceedingly average overall. I agree that they have put a lot more effort into making a meaningful narrative then the previous games but I just couldn&#039;t connect with any of them. If I had connected I probably would have enjoyed it more but as is the only thing I remember is how annoying that damn cousin was. Wish we were given a moral choice to shoot him, or at least the phone (or were we? As I said I found it so average it’s all but faded from my mind)

Guess what I’m trying to say is that I feel how much each person enjoys this game probably largely depends on if they buy into the characters.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can&#8217;t say I feel the same way about GTA IV. I found it to be exceedingly average overall. I agree that they have put a lot more effort into making a meaningful narrative then the previous games but I just couldn&#8217;t connect with any of them. If I had connected I probably would have enjoyed it more but as is the only thing I remember is how annoying that damn cousin was. Wish we were given a moral choice to shoot him, or at least the phone (or were we? As I said I found it so average it’s all but faded from my mind)</p>
<p>Guess what I’m trying to say is that I feel how much each person enjoys this game probably largely depends on if they buy into the characters.</p>
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		<title>By: Justin</title>
		<link>http://gamerlimit.com/2009/10/in-defence-of-grand-theft-auto-iv-part-one-my-city-screams/#comment-22401</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Oct 2009 02:53:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gamerlimit.com/?p=42161#comment-22401</guid>
		<description>@ Adam

Yes, heaven forbid we try a think too deeply about anything, let alone try and deconstruct it. It may come as a surprise to you, but some of us actually LIKE being intellectually stimulated while we play.

@ James

Great read. For me it is clearly the most complex, character driven and rounded iteration in the series, and whilst not always successful (still too reliant on caricature at times, a problem rampant in both film and video games unfortunately), the character of Niko is one of the most layered in video game history.

The constant phone calls did shit me though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Adam</p>
<p>Yes, heaven forbid we try a think too deeply about anything, let alone try and deconstruct it. It may come as a surprise to you, but some of us actually LIKE being intellectually stimulated while we play.</p>
<p>@ James</p>
<p>Great read. For me it is clearly the most complex, character driven and rounded iteration in the series, and whilst not always successful (still too reliant on caricature at times, a problem rampant in both film and video games unfortunately), the character of Niko is one of the most layered in video game history.</p>
<p>The constant phone calls did shit me though.</p>
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		<title>By: Adam</title>
		<link>http://gamerlimit.com/2009/10/in-defence-of-grand-theft-auto-iv-part-one-my-city-screams/#comment-22399</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Oct 2009 02:17:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gamerlimit.com/?p=42161#comment-22399</guid>
		<description>its only a game i think your a bit to involved in this game stop playing go out side</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>its only a game i think your a bit to involved in this game stop playing go out side</p>
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		<title>By: Sunday Supplement: &#8220;all-brawling and all-stealthing&#8221; &#124; Kotaku Australia</title>
		<link>http://gamerlimit.com/2009/10/in-defence-of-grand-theft-auto-iv-part-one-my-city-screams/#comment-22398</link>
		<dc:creator>Sunday Supplement: &#8220;all-brawling and all-stealthing&#8221; &#124; Kotaku Australia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Oct 2009 01:31:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gamerlimit.com/?p=42161#comment-22398</guid>
		<description>[...] Limit: In Defence of Grand Theft Auto IV James O&#8217;Connor examines the way Niko makes you feel guilt in this very personal response to [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Limit: In Defence of Grand Theft Auto IV James O&#8217;Connor examines the way Niko makes you feel guilt in this very personal response to [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Ian</title>
		<link>http://gamerlimit.com/2009/10/in-defence-of-grand-theft-auto-iv-part-one-my-city-screams/#comment-22360</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Oct 2009 03:56:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gamerlimit.com/?p=42161#comment-22360</guid>
		<description>Thankyou for summing up exactly why i thought this game was amazing.  It wasnt about how &#039;fun&#039; you thought it was or wasnt.  its about how it made you FEEL.  And while i laughed at the absurdity of people like Brucie, i have never connected with a character or felt emotions for one like i had Nico and Roman.  When double crossed several times throughout the game i was actually pissed.  It really did MAKE you a citizen of liberty city, made you feel like you were effecting peoples lives in a real way, even if they were just bytes or programming.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thankyou for summing up exactly why i thought this game was amazing.  It wasnt about how &#8216;fun&#8217; you thought it was or wasnt.  its about how it made you FEEL.  And while i laughed at the absurdity of people like Brucie, i have never connected with a character or felt emotions for one like i had Nico and Roman.  When double crossed several times throughout the game i was actually pissed.  It really did MAKE you a citizen of liberty city, made you feel like you were effecting peoples lives in a real way, even if they were just bytes or programming.</p>
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		<title>By: Jamaal</title>
		<link>http://gamerlimit.com/2009/10/in-defence-of-grand-theft-auto-iv-part-one-my-city-screams/#comment-22268</link>
		<dc:creator>Jamaal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Oct 2009 00:25:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gamerlimit.com/?p=42161#comment-22268</guid>
		<description>&quot;Im leaving with Roman!!&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Im leaving with Roman!!&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Martin Bigg</title>
		<link>http://gamerlimit.com/2009/10/in-defence-of-grand-theft-auto-iv-part-one-my-city-screams/#comment-22265</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin Bigg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Oct 2009 00:03:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gamerlimit.com/?p=42161#comment-22265</guid>
		<description>I must admit, GTA 4 is the first GTA where I actually cared about the characters, it&#039;s a very well thought out narrative.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I must admit, GTA 4 is the first GTA where I actually cared about the characters, it&#8217;s a very well thought out narrative.</p>
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		<title>By: Shawn Evans</title>
		<link>http://gamerlimit.com/2009/10/in-defence-of-grand-theft-auto-iv-part-one-my-city-screams/#comment-22226</link>
		<dc:creator>Shawn Evans</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Oct 2009 15:44:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gamerlimit.com/?p=42161#comment-22226</guid>
		<description>I absolutely loved GTA4 and found that there were a lot of emotional moments that affected me.  The last 3-4 hours of that game were an emotional rollercoaster ride.  It was definitely my game of the year for 2008.

On a side note ... I liked the fact that even though Niko would become richer and more powerful as the game went on, he never forgot his quest for revenge.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I absolutely loved GTA4 and found that there were a lot of emotional moments that affected me.  The last 3-4 hours of that game were an emotional rollercoaster ride.  It was definitely my game of the year for 2008.</p>
<p>On a side note &#8230; I liked the fact that even though Niko would become richer and more powerful as the game went on, he never forgot his quest for revenge.</p>
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